Monday, April 18, 2011

The mystery of the pine cones.

Over the past several days I've noticed strange things coming home in Alex's pants and coat pockets.  He's been bringing home pine needles, pine cones and the seeds from the cone. 

I pulled a pair of pants from the washing machine and out fell a bunch of pine needles.  I found pine cones in two other jackets, the pockets stuffed full. 

I asked Alex why I was finding pine cones and this is what he told me:

He was playing with them, by himself, at recess and a classmate came over and stated she wanted them.  And then she took them.  He told her he was playing with them and she took them anyway.  Ever since he's been pocketing things and hiding them from her.

I asked him why he didn't go to his para or teacher for help and said he couldn't.  If a disagreement was a "small thing" the kids are supposed to try and work it out themselves.  Fair enough.  Under normal circumstances I actually think that's a pretty good policy. 

I pushed him a little further and said something like, "But you told her you were playing with them and she took them anyway, that doesn't sound small to me..."  Honestly, it sounds like she was bullying you, that little hussy.  I kept my mouth shut on that last part. 

He said, "No. No, mom.  The pine cones are small, so I had to work it out on my own.  Those are the rules..."

The pine cones were small and therefore couldn't ask for help.  Such a literal interpretation of the rules. 


The next day I was in his resource teacher's office (I swear I think my car could drive there itself sometimes) explaining the situation.  We have it all worked out now, but it just goes to show how something so simple can be misconstrued or misinterpreted.   How literal and rule bound he is.  How he held on to the other child taking his things and he did what he thought best which, honestly, was not the best thing to do at all.  It shows how vulnerable he really is.

I've not seen any more pine needles or cones come home yet.  I'm off to check the backpack...

29 comments:

  1. you blew my mind
    our kids are sooo vulnerable due to their literal thinking
    hugs

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  2. Ugh! Doesn't that just make you SOOOOOOOO mad!
    And I can totally see why Alex interpreted it like that! Pine cones *are* small!

    And just for giggles....the first line I read: "Over the past several days I've noticed strange things coming home in Alex's pants" had me scared at first!!

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  3. Wow. This world must be a terribly confusing place sometimes for our literal kids.

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  4. That's amazing. It just goes to show you how much Alex aims to please. He wanted to play by the rules, even though the other child wasn't.

    And the literal thinking...well, I can see myself going there, and I've always done well with idiom and metaphor. It's just that the pine cones *are* small, and when you're dealing with something small, adults often think it's not a big deal. I can imagine some dumb adult saying, "They're just pine cones, for God's sake!" Not that Alex's teachers would -- but I heard stuff like that my whole childhood over my little treasures. Sometimes, people don't understand how precious these small things are to us spectrumites.

    So that might have been where Alex was coming from.

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  5. @Rachel---that's EXACTLY where he was coming from and EXACTLY what I told his teachers!! It was a huge deal to him, and me. I have his pine cones in a vase in the kitchen now. ;)

    @Fi--that gives me a giggle now too!

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  6. This is a very sweet reminder of the literal thinking by our children. Alex's choice to pocket and keep his "small" pine cones to himself is truly the perfect non-confrontational way to resolve his own problem. You do have to give him credit for mediating it himself! It makes me want to give him a great big hug! Of course, I'm glad you intervened so as to stop what could be bullying but I find it interesting that both our boys would rather walk away from a confrontation rather than hold onto something they are playing with (my son has done the same when other children grab toys from him but he just moves on to the next point of interest - he's easily redirected in that circumstance).

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  7. Wow. You and Big Daddy Autism are on the same page today. You both posted about how your kids take things so literally.

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  8. My son takes things SO literally so I know exactly how it goes...

    I'm in the resource room quite a bit too.

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  9. Aww. Your sweet little boy!

    It really catches NT's off guard when their words are interpreted so literally. Definitely something I need to keep in the back of my mind when dealing with my boyos.

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  10. Thanks for the heads up. Our guy, well, he's a bit literal, you might say!

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  11. Very literal, yes, but I like how he made an effort to solve the problem himself, even if he didn't quite understand what he needed to do. That was pretty smart!

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  12. I'm glad you've sorted it out, but he was pretty smart to realise he could hide things from the other kid and get what he wanted whilst letting her think that he wasn't - isn't that Theory of Mind??

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  13. This is a brilliant example of literal thinking by our kids...and shows again how hard it is for parents and teachers to realise how their words and rules will be interpreted x

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  14. With my son still so young, although I've heard a lot about this literal thinking, I haven't always been able to imagine exactly how that might come up in day to day life. This (and DBA's post) really shed some light on the matter, so thank you!

    Also, how adorable is Alex?!?! That's so sweet and so clever of him to take matters into his own hands and try to fix the problem himself.

    On another note, our dog eats any and everything and is constantly making herself sick because of it. Recenlty we found out she's been eating pine cones... Tons and tons of pine cones because uhhh... Let's just say they don't digest as well as the other stuff she eats. Sorry to gross anyone out.

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  15. @K-FL--thank you!

    @Christy--I think A was really confused...

    @Karen V.--yeah, he did figure it out, didn't he? I'm glad he walked away... I just wish he'd tell me (or someone else) when he's confused so we can clarify and help him. I never realized that till you pointed that out. See, I love this part of blogging. :)

    @DeeAnn--that's so cool! I went over and it must be "literal day" or something. I love how BDA writes about his family...

    @Brian--any time!

    @NJAMB--yeah, its neat, I didn't realize that aspect of it. See, this is why I love blogging, so I can get another perspective--thanks.

    @bbsmum--I suppose it is...thanks for that. I was so worried about the bullying part I missed the YAY part. ;)

    @Looking for Blue Sky--thanks!

    @MarsupialMama--I'm glad you're home safe--hugs. And let's just say I'll never look at pine cones in the same way! LOL

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  16. Ooh yes, I see a theory of mind leap here too. Awesome ho much he wants to please!

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  17. Awww, sweet baby! He just wants his pine cones, damn it! I don't know which is worse, because my kid probably would have put the smack down on the other kid, which is not good either. But yes, they are so literal, it boggles my mind sometimes.

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  18. Maybe I'm missing something here, but I just don't see this as literal thinking on Alex's part. In fact, I see it as very good theory of mind. He's aware of the fact that neurotypical grownups often think quite literally when they equate small things with being of small importance, and he realized that he might not get far complaining about it.

    Sometimes, it feels like folks try to slot us into the latest autism theories instead of thinking of all the various possibilities for what could be going on in our minds. We are capable of thinking in very complex terms, and we draw a number of correct conclusions based on our experiences. Yes, sometimes we take things quite literally, but there's lots of that going on in the neurotypical world as well, especially when it comes to seeing us in terms of theory instead of complex possibility.

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  19. @Rachel--The way I saw it was this: Alex thinking the pine cones were small which equates to a small thing which equates to a small problem--so you manage it yourself. I saw him thinking literally as he could not seek help due to the small size of the cones and ToM in that he solved it on his own.

    And even then I feel like I'm overthinking the situation for him.

    I'm not trying to lable my son, or anyone else. All I am trying to do is understand and help him navigate situations life throws at him. The only thing I have to go on are books and reasearch and I try to apply what I see so I can better understand him, to help him. I take it no further than that.

    I don't ever look at my son as a theory. I see a beautiful little boy that's so darn like me it's scary. I can see his mind whirl a mile a minute, thinking of everything at once. And when I see that, all I see are possibilites.

    It is through the help of you and other adults on the Spectrum that I see what my son will become, what I'm pushing him towards--greatness. I see nothing of theory when I visit your blog. I see all the strides you've made in your life and quite hoenstly I am in awe of you and your accomplishments. If any one of my children could be half that, I'd be a proud mom indeed.

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  20. Oh, gosh, Lizbeth, my apologies. I was not at all meaning to cast aspersions on your parenting, and I loved your post. Otherwise, I wouldn't have commented.

    At this moment, I am wearied beyond words by the theories about autistic people that pass for truth in this world, and by the fact that non-autistic voices get so much more airtime than autistic voices. So when I saw all the comments on this post assigning the whole issue to Alex's literal thinking, I felt like the lone autistic voice (again) with the lone alternate, inside explanation (again), and my weariness hit a new low. When that happens, I can get passionate and ornery, and inadvertently put people on the defensive.

    And I have seen it happen in the other direction: autism moms who feel so wearied that they get passionate and ornery and put me on the defensive, too.

    Obviously, we're all a bit tired. :-)

    Anyway, again, my apologies. It sure ain't your fault that I'm feeling down.

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  21. Kids really are amazing, aren't they?! Having found out our girl has autism has relaly made me want to go and study psychology, or become a brain surgeon... am thinking I've left it a little late in life sadly! But wow, they are so clever - is that a good word? Probably not good enough for them x

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  22. I so get this! My son is the exact same way. I hate how it makes things more difficult for them, and like one blogger said, it makes them more vulnerable to these kinds of things. I have a hard time because my son doesn't share much with me, so I have to pull it out of him.

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  23. @Rachel---Don't apologize---I know you meant no insult, injury or any offence to my parenting. Trust me, I know that. There will be days, however, when I do a less than stellar job and I'll post about it and we can all get a good laugh at my misfortunes, I'm good at getting a laugh at myself. I have to otherwise I'd be a complete wreck by now!

    I do know what you are referring to and it saddens me beyond words that assumptions are being made and your voice is being removed and replaced by a NT with the Autistic perspective. I don't understand it, nor do I like it. It does nothing but perpetuate false and inaccurate information. Sigh.

    I'm sorry too for being defensive. It's so hard sometimes with the written word to convey a message and hope the intent is transmitted along with the feeling. I have nothing but the utmost respect for you and I hope that comes through.

    I don't know what it is right now but I think we're all so sick of winter and this spring is just not showing up! Makes the best of us turn into something we're not.

    Hugs, hugs, hugs---L

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  24. @ Steph--I know!! I feel like I should have an honorary PhD from somewhere...I'm not sure they would let me do brain surgery or anything but it counts for something, right? ;)

    @Patty O.--Our boys sound so similar. The only way I found out about this was because I now have the cleanest pine cones, ever! It never occurred to him to tell me and to be honest that scares me because I start thinking, "Oh my God, what ISN'T he telling me?!?"

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  25. Thanks, Lizbeth! I'm glad you understood that I meant no harm. Phew!

    And I think you're right -- after a winter that felt like it lasted ten years, lots of us are feeling low. I'm getting so tired of waking up to bare trees against grey sky, I could weep. Enough already!

    Hugs back atcha...:-)

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  26. Hmmmm. Uber-Literalness? Yeah. I can relate.

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  27. Thanks, Lizbeth! I'm glad you understood that I meant no harm. Phew!

    And I think you're right -- after a winter that felt like it lasted ten years, lots of us are feeling low. I'm getting so tired of waking up to bare trees against grey sky, I could weep. Enough already!

    Hugs back atcha...:-)

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  28. Wow, this post made me smile but also feel sad, if that makes any sense. And Lizbeth, the dialogue here between you & Rachel really captures so much of what is confounding me right now. When I hear that saying "When you've met 1 autistic person, you've met 1 autistic person" it kind of makes me want to punch someone, but at the same time I can't deny that it's true. Anyway, Alex is lucky. You've got his back.

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  29. @AllieF--it is so true, and yes it does make sense. I'm scared to death of what happens to him when he's out of my sight because he is that vulnerable. I look to others on the Specturm knowing they made it and seek their wisdom to know he'll get it--with my (and their) help. At any rate I hope I'm beating some sense into my kids heads!!!

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